Marketing and Sales

Ep 30 | Creating a consistent Pipeline for B2B Marketers: A chat with Nina Church-Adams, SVP of Marketing at Act-On Software

Nina Church-Adams, currently the SVP of Marketing at Act-On Software discusses B2B marketing tactics that global tech leaders and her team at Act-On Software uses to ensure consistent pipeline generation. In this episode she breaks down the upcoming trends in the technology marketing domain and talks about the various ways in which B2B marketing and sales will change in the future. 

About Nina:
Nina is a senior marketing leader with more than 15 years of experience building teams, products and brands. Nina has been successful in leading global cross-functional teams through product launches, go-to-market transformations, and organizational transitions. She is a marketer, and a storyteller who can align a diverse team around a shared vision by harnessing and focusing on a team’s creativity.

About Act-On Software:
Act-On Software is a leading marketing automation / SaaS product that helps sales and marketing teams increase and convert leads faster and more efficiently throughout the buying journey.

Top ten takeaways from the episode:

  1. “From a marketing standpoint, my team is now trying to enable a more agile marketing process.”
  2. “So often people jump ahead into the measurement without any focus on ensuring they have the right kind of data.”
  3. “Paying attention to multiple data sets helps us optimize every campaign.”
  4. “Specifically coming from this space, I’ve seen people think about Demand Gen first when it comes to what they should their martech for. But they don’t think about leveraging marketing technology for activities beyond that and that is a big miss in itself. Often people don’t even think of marketing automation for a Sales use case!”
  5. “With subscription-models becoming more prevalent, it is crucial for Marketing and Sales to stay close to their customer!”
  6. “The role of the Salesperson according to me will continue to be important in the B2B space.”
  7. “Buyers have growing expectations now and this evolution is changing the industry, it is changing how we personalize campaigns.”
  8. “Its all about leveraging multiple technologies and data points to grab the best results today.”
  9. “Marketing and Sales alignment helps get better traction from every campaign and outreach.”
  10. “What our customers need is good technology plus the support to optimally use it.”
About the podcast

Sunny Side Up is a series of 15-minute podcasts. Leaders and innovators share what they’ve learned in the B2B tech sector on topics related to marketing, product management, sales, and leadership.

Ep 29 | Uncovering ROI driven B2B Sales Tactics with Jeremey Donovan, SVP of Sales Strategy at SalesLoft

Jeremey Donovan is SVP of Sales Strategy at SalesLoft, the world’s leading sales engagement platform. Over the past 20+ years, he has had an eclectic career spanning semiconductor engineering to product development/management to sales & marketing leadership at Xilinx, Gartner, AMA, GLG, and CB Insights. Jeremey is the author of five books including the international public speaking bestseller “How to Deliver a TED Talk” as well as “Predictable Prospecting.” He holds a BS and an MS in Electrical Engineering from Cornell University and an MBA from the University of Chicago Booth School of Business. 

In this episode, Jeremey discusses key B2B sales strategies that help organizations like SalesLoft drive more results. 

Top ten takeaways from the episode:

  1. “My days are highly varied. I try to have these ‘deep work’ periods were I tackle complex projects on some days.”
  2. “Predictive models are only as good as the data that comes in. And too many organizations don’t have super clean data.”
  3. “Picking the ‘right’ contacts or ‘right’ accounts will always remain elusive.”
  4. “Any sort of change in audience behavior requires alignment between people, process and technology to deal with it correctly.”
  5. “Today, we don’t have a technology problem…we have a problem with people and processes, process adherence more specifically.”
  6. “Email and phone remain dominant channels to reach prospects on…social is picking up too in this space. Today, Direct Mail is being used as a differentiator. Though few years ago, it was a dead channel. The one bad thing you can do in B2B Sales is use just a single channel.”
  7. “I follow a retrospective A/B testing, where I can test something on data and make the abstract more concrete.”
  8. “We’ve discovered that one-word subject lines have the best reply rates!”
  9. “The most common best word for prospecting is in fact just a company name!”
  10. “Tools that help you figure out what your next best action is will be big in demand, especially by salespeople.”
About the podcast

Sunny Side Up is a series of 15-minute podcasts. Leaders and innovators share what they’ve learned in the B2B tech sector on topics related to marketing, product management, sales, and leadership.

Ep 27 | Evolving Trends in B2B Sales, Martech adoption and Demand Gen with David Lewis

David Lewis, CEO of DemandGen  is known as an innovator in digital marketing technology and methodologies. He has overseen marketing strategies for some of Silicon Valley’s leading technology firms. 

In this episode, David discusses key issues related to adoption of martech stacks and best practices to ensure maximum output from them besides sharing some interesting thoughts on B2B marketing, B2B sales and Demand Generation.

About David and DemandGen International:

David started DemandGen International, an Inc. 500 global consulting and services company that helps sales and marketing teams achieve alignment, define and operationalize their demand-generation processes to create maximum advantage from marketing technology and sales technology systems. 

DemandGen has developed a reputation of being THE experts in MarTech and trusted advisor to the world’s most innovative and progressive companies including Apple, Dell, American Express, Concur, Siemens, SAP, Medtronic, Citrix, CenturyLink, Workday, and hundreds more. 

Top ten takeaways from the episode:

  1. “As CEO of the company, there’s a pattern every week. But a typical day includes working on blogs, working on books, working on my podcast — I just did my 100th episode at DemandGen Radio!”
  2. “I’m also a bit of a Chief Innovation Officer and that’s important to the company! I spend alot of time researching the marketplace and that’s important too!”
  3. “My first book ‘Manufacturing Demand’ has done incredibly well. It explains the WHY of aligning Sales and Marketing and its the Number 1 book in the category. The working title of my new book is ‘Agents of Change’ and its a story, a tapestry of stories that our clients have gone through so I can share with everyone how to go about Sales and Marketing.”
  4.  “If Sales and Marketing doesn’t focus on Customer Experience, it doesn’t matter if you have the best products or processes.”
  5. “If Sales and Marketing view themselves as #oneteam with a common set of goals it optimizes results.”
  6. “To reduce friction between Sales and Marketing, I would say – walk in the shoes of your colleague!”
  7. “From a trend perspective, we are seeing Sales playing a different role in B2B buying. In every single industry where products and sellers meet, we are seeing less involvement by a person. Companies want less interaction with prospects in the buying process. I wouldn’t say Sales will be completely displaced. There needs to be representation from an individual. But in terms of skill sets and the role itself, it would shift towards more education – educating prospects on technologies and products. You got to be an excellent marketing person to be able to do good in Sales today.”
  8. “Unfortunately, a lot of companies do not align on vision and strategy. This affects the end outcome. It doesn’t align, its basically then random acts of marketing and random acts of selling.”
  9.  “ABM is really hard. Its way easier to buy lists and go the generic email route. Its harder to think of a specific audience and personas within. But is ABM worth it? Absolutely. If people want ABM to be successful, it might make sense to target them through their install base data.” 
  10. “Everything sounds practical and directional, but its hard. It takes the right team, it takes focus and it takes vision to succeed!”
About the podcast

Sunny Side Up is a series of 15-minute podcasts. Leaders and innovators share what they’ve learned in the B2B tech sector on topics related to marketing, product management, sales, and leadership.

Ep 25 | Improving B2B Sales and Strategies with Mike Kunkle, VP of Sales Enablement Services at SPA & SPASIGMA

If you’re thinking of ways to improve your B2B sales effectiveness to drive profitable growth, grab these interesting insights by Mike Kunkle, VP of Sales Enablement Services at SPA and SPASIGMA.

About Mike:

Mike Kunkle is a respected sales transformation architect and internationally-recognized sales training and sales enablement expert. He’s spent 35 years in the sales profession and 25 years as a corporate leader or consultant, helping companies drive dramatic revenue growth through best-in-class learning strategies and his proven-effective sales transformation methodologies. Today, Mike is the Vice President of Sales Enablement Services for SPA and SPASIGMA, where he advises clients, writes, speaks, leads webinars, publishes sales training courses, and designs sales enablement systems that get results. 


SPA (sales analytics) and SPASIGMA (sales training & enablement) help clients improve sales effectiveness and drive profitable growth through the effective implementation of sales analytics, training, and tools.

Top ten takeaways from the episode:

  1. “I think one of the current trends out there is thinking about sales stacks and sales enablement stacks.”
  2. “We are seeing a lot of collaboration happening so companies can increase their set of offerings and functionalities.”
  3. “What sales enablement leaders can do is think strategically think about sales enablement and support and find out what exactly their Sales reps need to close deals faster.”
  4. “Its important to identify whether sales reps need better contact info, training to close competency gaps, or additional skills to enable better conversations.”
  5. “It is important to find the right strategy and then support it with the right sales stacks and sales enablement tools.”
  6. “I still see a ton of product pitching and its all about them (the reps) and their product. People don’t want that anymore.”
  7. “We don’t demonstrate enough of a buyer-centric approach today, that’s the need of the hour.”
  8. “Sales reps have to be able to speak two different languages on the basis of the title they are speaking to, that doesn’t happen often enough.”
  9. “Buyer expectations are changing and modern buyers won’t tolerate direct product pitching much longer.”
  10. “Sales tools are meant to integrate with the role of a sales rep, to help them work better.”
About the podcast

Sunny Side Up is a series of 15-minute podcasts. Leaders and innovators share what they’ve learned in the B2B tech sector on topics related to marketing, product management, sales, and leadership.

Ep 24 | The Importance of Conversational Marketing in the B2B Marketplace with Gar Smyth, VP of Enterprise Marketing at Drift

Gar Smyth, VP of Enterprise Marketing at talks to us about the importance of conversational marketing in today’s B2B marketplace. Why is it becoming so crucial for marketers and sales people to integrate this into their strategy? Have a quick listen to find out!

About Gar:

Gar has a rich background in B2B branding, demand generation, product marketing, field and channel marketing, and sales enablement. He has built and led outstanding B2B marketing teams in the US and globally 

Prior to Drift, he led Demand Generation, Field Marketing and Channel Marketing at Carbon Black which had a successful IPO in May 2018.

About Drift:

Drift is a leading conversational marketing platform that helps businesses turn their online traffic into meetings.

Top ten takeaways from the episode:

  1. “I usually have 2500 accounts that I care about at a time, I use multiple types of activities to go after multiple personas within those accounts…”
  2. “The challenge with traditional tactics is that none of those methods work anymore.”
  3. “The biggest value prop at Drift is that we help buyers connect to sellers when its the right time to sell.”
  4. “We’ve seen that there is usually a 48 hour gap between a form fill on a website and a BDR reaching out. Its important to shorten that gap”
  5. “Bring live human experiences to your website to drive business from web traffic.”
  6. “With conversational marketing, sales reps can jump onto a call with leads without losing any time.”
  7. “We are seeing 30% to 40% conversions with conversational marketing.”
  8. “Most of the opportunities being generated today are coming via chat.”
  9. “With our intel, we can notify an Account Manager when a strategic account is on the website – that is the first core technology we use through reverse IP lookup to drive business.”
  10. “Always have context on the who the person is to get most value out of conversational marketing.”
About the podcast

Sunny Side Up is a series of 15-minute podcasts. Leaders and innovators share what they’ve learned in the B2B tech sector on topics related to marketing, product management, sales, and leadership.

Ep23 | Discussing B2B Marketing Trends and Strategies with Jay Gaines, CMO at SiriusDecisions

Jay Gaines, currently CMO at SiriusDecisions talks to us about the Demand Unit Waterfall (the newest, re-architectured version of the Demand Waterfall) changes in B2B marketing trends and the increased use of install tech data and technographics in this space. 

Listen on for some interesting insights and takeaways!

About Jay:

Jay Gaines is passionate about marketing leadership that drives innovation, and measurable results. In his career that spans over 20 years, he has been in a variety of b-to-b industries.  His experience includes organizational design leadership, marketing strategy and planning, marketing budget, operations management, demand creation, sales and marketing alignment, digital strategy. Jay has held executive-level marketing and business development positions at well-established and startup b-to-b companies. 

Prior to SiriusDecisions, Jay was Chief Marketing Officer at EDR, a b-to-b information company, where he led all marketing, communications, market research and events activities across the company’s six business divisions. 

About SiriusDecisions:

SiriusDecisions empowers the world’s leading marketing, sales and product professionals to make better decisions, execute with precision and accelerate growth.
SiriusDecisions clients grow 12-15X faster than their peers, and are 34% more profitable.

Top ten takeaways from the episode:

  1. “I spend a lot of time with the Field Sales team, which I think is important to any CMO.”
  2. “The primary way I approach Sales and Marketing alignment is to create a common view of the customer.”
  3. “We do a lot of things in terms of structure to create alignment with Sales and Marketing too.”
  4. “The biggest challenge that CMOs can have is their own CEOs and CFOs!”
  5. “Really understanding the nature of your offering is key to driving revenue and planning strategies.”
  6. “Account-based Marketing has been and continues to be all the rage. Every client at SiriusDecisions focuses on it in one form or the other.”
  7. “ABM is best when you want to go after large accounts.”
  8. “In B2B marketing and ABM, engagement metrics are important at every stage.”
  9. “One of the big trends we’ve been tracking for a while now is increased consumption of install tech data, technographics.”
  10. “Technographic data helps create better Customer Experiences. Expectations are being defined by experiences in B2B marketing. Retaining customers is crictical and CX begins before anyone becomes a customer…technographics can help create that experience, to serve  better outcomes.”
About the podcast

Sunny Side Up is a series of 15-minute podcasts. Leaders and innovators share what they’ve learned in the B2B tech sector on topics related to marketing, product management, sales, and leadership.

Ep22 | Transforming B2B Sales Strategies with Ben Simms of MarketSource Inc

If you’re (still!) looking for new ways to disrupt your B2B Sales initiatives, these useful tips and ideas from Ben Simms, Vice President of Commercial Client Services at MarketSource will come handy.

About Ben:

As the leader of delivery for commercial client services at MarketSource, Ben is responsible for deploying and executing a wide range of B2B sales and marketing solutions for Fortune 500 and enterprise clients across several verticals and industries. Ben’s client engagement programs manage inside sales, account development, brand advocacy, and channel sales teams for some of the most iconic brands in the B2B space. He has an insatiable thirst for learning how different industries can most efficiently grow revenue and share knowledge management principles to instigate strategic thinking. The #1 motivating factor throughoutBen’s profession has been growing careers.

Prior to MarketSource he spent 15 years as a leader in admissions, marketing, and operations for higher education institutions to launch careers for graduates and now enjoys growing careers at MarketSource on behalf of his clients. Combining his experience in education and passion for rock music Ben has a “side hustle” as the owner of School of Rock – Johns Creek, inspiring people to rock on stage and in life, which was voted “best music lessons in North Atlanta” by Appen Media. Ben has lived in 13 states calling Georgia home since 2013.

He holds a BBA from Western Michigan University and an MBA from the University of Colorado. Ben lives in Johns Creek with his wife, Christina, and two rock star sons. You can follow him on Twitter  or connect with him on LinkedIn.

Top ten takeaways from the episode:

  1. “I’m a fan of high amount of sales prospecting touchpoints.”
  2. “If you have a high volume of attempts within a timeframe, you get more results.”
  3. “Sales and marketing alignment is an age-old question that I don’t think will ever be solved!.”
  4. “Sales and Marketing conflict can actually help challenge the status quo.”
  5. “The one thing Marketing is responsible for (always) is generating leads.”
  6. “Its never only about impressions and touches and triggers.”
  7. “Sales should have SLAs – how quickly will they respond to a lead, how quickly will they follow up.”
  8. “I believe Marketing should focus on Demand Generation and Inbound leads.”
  9. “Its more common to have BDRs and SDRs report to Sales and this also gives more results.”
  10. “Data is improving dramatically and in a quick way. I’m excited about technographic data which analyses digital signals to see who is using or recently purchased different technologies. ”
About the podcast

Sunny Side Up is a series of 15-minute podcasts. Leaders and innovators share what they’ve learned in the B2B tech sector on topics related to marketing, product management, sales, and leadership.

Ep21 | Demand Generation and B2B Marketing with Matt Heinz of Heinz Marketing

We had the pleasure of speaking with martech influencer Matt Heinz (President and Founder of B2B marketing and sales acceleration firm Heinz Marketing) in this episode on B2B marketing trends. Have a quick listen!

About Heinz Marketing:
Established in 2008, Heinz Marketing is a B2B sales and marketing firm located in Redmond, WA, serving businesses throughout North America and overseas.  Heinz Marketing focuses on driving results through strategic demand generation, disciplined sales funnel strategies, fully-integrated campaigns and collaboration between marketing and sales organizations.

Top ten takeaways from the episode:

  1. “The more sales and marketing work together, the more likely the company is to achieve its goals.”
  2. “Account-based Marketing done well requires tight integration between sales and marketing and the buying committee at your target accounts.”
  3. “Addressing the buying committee as one team is the biggest challenge to overcome today.”
  4. “No one can do enterprise sales and marketing without a pretty complex data that tells you who your targets are, and why to target one company over the other.”
  5. “There is often a lot of variables that go into choice of data.”
  6. “Alot of content is ask and not give.”
  7. “The fallacy I hear is that people are not consuming content, that is simply not true. We have more content coming to us in various formats today.”
  8. “Your content strategy should go from interruptive to creative.”
  9. “In 2019 we will see smaller and narrower, more focused content created, maybe even to audiences of just one!”
  10. “Direct mail has made an enormous comeback, when people get Direct Mail, they think its novel because they don’t get too many mails anymore!.”
About the podcast

Sunny Side Up is a series of 15-minute podcasts. Leaders and innovators share what they’ve learned in the B2B tech sector on topics related to marketing, product management, sales, and leadership.

Ep20 | Breaking Down B2B Sales with Christy Kirkland, SalesLoft

What does 2019 hold for B2B sales and salestech? 

We recently spoke with Christy Kirkland from SalesLoft to discuss upcoming trends in B2B sales. 

About Christy, in her own words:
“I started my career in SaaS almost by mistake, or rather grand design. I began at Lead Forensics, which was an incredible learning experience & eventually graduated into a more challenging role at Marketo. After much deliberation, I chose to leave and venture off to SalesLoft – an Atlanta-based & quickly growing, but immensely successful start-up.”

Top ten takeaways from the episode:

  1. “The biggest push I’m seeing today is rising popularity of Sales Engagement platforms, the whole world right now is paying attention to Sales Engagement”
  2. “An important part of Sales Engagement is having a multi-channel platform” 
  3. “80% of top performing organizations use at least 3 channels”
  4. “If you just use phone or email, you will be missing the mark”
  5. “Sales tech and Sales engagement is an evolving market, sales people are slower in adopting tools and technologies”
  6. “Its all about being politely persistent today”
  7. “It is hard to build a predictable pipeline with substandard data”
  8. “Marketing teams have picked up on ABM, ABM is meant to drive alignment between Marketing and Sales”
  9. “More and more people are taking an account-based approach to Sales too. Everyone has a different take on what ABM means to them”
  10. “It all comes down to personalization, everyone likes to feel special”
About the podcast

Sunny Side Up is a series of 15-minute podcasts. Leaders and innovators share what they’ve learned in the B2B tech sector on topics related to marketing, product management, sales, and leadership.

Ep19 | Account-based Marketing with Sangram Vajre of Terminus

Why is Account-based marketing gaining so much importance in B2B Marketing?


Sangram Vajre, Founder of the #FlipMyFunnel podcast and Co-founder and CMO of Account-based marketing platform Terminus responds while sharing his predictions for ABM in 2019.

Paroma (00:08) : Hi Sangram. Welcome to the DemandMatrix podcast titled Sunny Side Up, we’re really happy to have you here today. How are you?

Sangram(00:20) : I am fantastic thanks for having me.

Paroma (00:23): Great. And do you want to start by telling our audience a little bit about yourself.

Sangram (00:28): Alright Sure. I think most people who know me probably know me as someone who started the #FlipMyFunnel movement. Prior to this I ran marketing at Pardot and I’ve spent a couple of years at Salesforce. So I’ve been pretty blessed to have some really incredibly fun experiences career wise.

Paroma (01:02) : That’s Pretty  interesting. So how did Terminus come about.

Sangram (01:07) : Well I mean when I was at Pardot and at that time I realized that there was there was a moment where one of the months we had about 3000 leads that we created in that month and we beat all the records for the year and we were just celebrating as a team. I remember one of my sales leaders came and said, “Hey that’s awesome that you guys did that.” Could you do 4000 next month. I was like- well this is never ending, like there was no conversation of quality, there is no conversation of you know how could we get better at any of the processes. We are all thinking and acting as if there’s an unlimited supply of our target accounts and target list of people that that we can sell to. Clearly that’s not the case. As a matter of fact during the same year, Forrester came out and did a study and said that less than 1 percent of the leads are turning into customers. So that combination of feeling like well no matter how much I do it’s not going to work- This is challenge that has been faced by everybody. I was fortunate enough to meet two of the original founders of Terminus and they were working on some really interesting things and I felt- man we could do something fun here so I ended up leaving Salesforce to join them and kind of restructure a little bit. And here we are.

Paroma (02:46) :-That’s great. So. So tell us a little bit about Account -based marketing and B2B Marketing- why is there such an increase in adoption. Why this love for ABM all of a sudden over the last couple of years.

Sangram (02:59) :-Well you know I think it really requires everybody to take a step back, we can go back to 2000 when email was hot and people used to get 80-90% open rate and that was fantastic. But then five years later or so e-mail became such a thing where everybody was overusing it, where now the open rates are like sometimes less than 2 percent. And people are OK with that. And if you really look at the last 10 -15 years we have gone through this process of email marketing automation to predictive, all trying to create new technologies that is truly just trying to get in front of the right people at the right time on the right channel. That has always been the goal of everybody who has been in marketing. But what we forgot in the process and I think that’s why ABM is so interesting is we really really really focused on technology as opposed to strategy. And I think like everything else I shared – It’s a technology. It’s not a strategy called E-mail marketing strategy marketing automation. I ran marketing at Pardot. So until it’s a tool people can misuse it and a lot of people do and most people are still trying to use it just purely as an e-mail marketing solution, a predictive kind that tells you the right algorithms- What do or who to go after but really doesn’t do anything to promote the strategy. So I think that’s one of the big reasons why I think ABM has caught hold in such a big way. I think it’s because its purely a strategy, it takes us back to being exceptional marketers or we want to figure out who we’re going to go after, what message to create and then dial and focus and align with our sales counterparts and do a really good job of it. And I think everything else was more technology focused or innovation focused.

Paroma(05:00) :-Yeah so say you spoke about the messaging, adding relevancy to a marketing message. How would you tell marketers to do that at scale. Using technology.

Sangram(05:12) :- That’s a great question. I think every time you think about newer things, there’s always a chance where we look at it and say well you know it cannot be done. I’ll tell you a few examples. We had Snowflake who’s a huge customer of Terminus and a practitioner of ABM in the office last couple of weeks ago and he shared that they’re doing about five hundred one to one ads that take those five hundred target accounts to 1 ,500 unique categories where they then retarget 1 to 1 in order to get in front of them and their entire buying center. So let me just unpack that for a second. He’s doing 1 to 1 campaigns not for 1,5, 10, but 500 companies and he wants to do four thousand and they are Snowflake – one of the fastest growing companies in the SAAS sector in the world right now. They’re trying to shoot for a billion dollar market cap in 2020. The point being, if you want to grow fast I think scale is important but that doesn’t mean he can generate 50000 leads today. But he’s not going up fifty thousand he’s going after five hundred and is creating five hundred one to one campaigns. So. So when I think scale is very relative I feel like a lot of times in the name of scale we tried to go and generalize the messaging and it really doesn’t work, people can see through it. So if you truly want to personalize the messaging then we have to go beyond that and be really really focused on the experience that you’re creating not only the ad but also the landing page. Like in their case they’re not only taking ads and getting them to a landing page, they are now retargeting anybody who comes to that specific landing page from that specific company, they can measure how much traffic this is generating and how much engagement they’re getting on the accounts they and their sales teams actually care about that, that is a very different kind of skill. So I think it’s time for all of us to start redefining what scale really means.

Paroma(07:38) :-  Absolutely. So there’s a lot of talk of data here. Of course you know when you talk about measurement. So how would you tell Marketers and B2B Sales team to capitalize on data, what should be their priority?

Sangram(07:52) :- Data is a fun topic in itself. I think everybody knows that nobody has good data and everybody’s trying to do it- we stumbled on that problem ourselves and we realized that. Our customers didn’t have the right data. And we were doing things like- Give us your data from Salesforce and your marketing automation and then we’ll start running campaigns for it. What we started realizing is that they themselves don’t have good data. So it’s really bad feeding the bad and really the net result is even worse. So for example we would automate data from different data providers in order to help our customers do that because I truly believe not a single customer and not a single company out there has good quality data. The most survey results that we have seen is anywhere between 30 to 40 percent. So to me I feel like this is again another paradigm shift for somebody who might be listening. You need to stop relying on your CRM for actually like a ton of data. You have to start augmenting it from all these other places either through platforms like Terminus or through other platforms, there are hundreds of them available right now. And keep it going for all the one to one personalization that we just talked about.

Paroma(09:35) :- So what would be the key engagement metrics that one would need to track when they’re putting in all these efforts and taking all of this into account?

Sangram(09:46) :- Yeah. You know the the biggest aspect of engagement- I think it’s a fluffy word. Would you agree like you know when we say engagement the first thing they think about is like oh that might be just fluffy like who measures engagement right.

Paroma(10:00) :-Right. You know that also very it’s something that people don’t don’t necessarily give enough importance to .

Sangram(10:08) :-Yeah, because you know if you go to your salesperson or our CEO or CFO and say that hey we have a have of engagement on a Website I think one of the big reasons why engagement became a bad word was because marketing kept showing increase in traffic on their Website. Yes. Yes, and that became one of the major elements of marketing when they’re presenting to the Sales team and the board its – hey look whatever we’re doing is working because we have more traffic coming in. Yeah right. And the reason we’re not closing more deals you know it’s it’s not our problem it’s your problem right. And and I think what engagement really in the new ABM 2.0 world is, it’s not traffic to the Website from any and every place. Traffic from the right accounts from the right people in the companies that you want to go after. So if I were to show you a ten thousand percent increase in traffic to the website that really may not mean anything because that may just mean that you’ve done some press releases and some interesting PR kind of market activity. But if I were to show you that – hey of the five hundred accounts that you and your sales team is banking on in order to close deals to meet your business goals or business outcomes for the end of the year, those 500 accounts if I were to show you that 40 percent of those accounts are actually spending time on your website I think it would change the conversation internally where I say OK well let’s do something with these 40 percent and let’s figure out what do we do with the other 60 percent that we don’t have engagement for.

Paroma(12:14) :-Right. And. Okay so let’s get get to the entire strategy point here. How many touch points would you say are need for any cadence? And what kind of a balance would you suggest when it comes to an inbound and outbound strategy.

Sangram(12:32) :-Man there is so much study done on this. Some say nine. Some say 10”20. I actually quite honestly think that that question does not have the right intentions, I think the question is not doing justice to what really our future customers expect. I don’t think you have to hit anybody 50 times to get the message. So I don’t think number of touches is the answer. Quite honestly I feel the quality of touches is the answer. So going back to this example of Snowflake or you know I’ll give you another example. Jillian I just interviewed her on the FlipMyFunnel podcast .She said that they target 250 accounts. This is a mega company. She’s part of the legal division that runs 60 percent of the revenue for the organization. So she said they go after 250 accounts a year. And using ABM. They’re able to get in front of 95 percent of those accounts and that is how they’re looking at increasing their win rate. Now you look at that and when we look at and here and understand how she’s looking at touches they’re not looking at any and every charge they’re really looking at – Do we have engagement happening in that account and that engagement can happen with the very first direct mail because it is so well done or the very first ad that you saw or it could take three different attempts to really get the problem right so that when the message is in front of them they get it and the time is right for them. So I really don’t know if there is a real good answer or data to support what is right over the other. I feel like if there’s anything we we should all super focused on figuring out how we can create quality touches for our customers.

Paroma(14:33) :- That’s pretty interesting insight. What are some of the most successful ABM campaigns by leading brands that you’d like to talk about that you think people should look at as a reference point when they’re probably starting off with their first campaign.

Sangram(14:48) :- Yeah I mean the two examples have shared right here. They’re the Snowflake and Writers. I think we can look at that. One of the things they do beyond what do other campaigns do go way specific is when I’m seeing a resurgence on is really all about customer marketing. So a lot of marketers are spending a ton of time on acquisition because majority of what the executive team does or expects out of marketing is a great acquisition inside right. So they’re really focused on acquisition and some of them are focusing on Pipeline velocity and very few of them, if any, are focused on customer marketing. I’m seeing that CMOs are spending more and more time on making sure that their retention rates are going up, their expansion revenue coming up and ABM is a is a poster child for that because with Account-based marketing you truly can. And if you want to upset or cross-sell in other words I like to say observe if you’re up serving them with other products services or anything like that you know so much about them. And if the color of the money is still green then why not create more retention revenue and expansion revenue because that is really going to increase the bottom line. As a founder myself I feel like from a business perspective that outweighs a net new revenue. If I can get a dollar more in motor retention I’ll be fine. And then acquisition because a dollar or more in retention creates a better economics for the growth and the health of the business than a dollar or more in retention with a negative not not so good for retention. So point being that more and more companies are actually starting to see more revenue coming out of their retention and having marketing influence on it. And in both of these cases both of these marketers are hyper focused on that.

Paroma(16:19) :-Right. So. So what do you see for ABM in 2019.

Sangram(16:56) :-So much so much. I think what I would like to see I don’t have I would see it in 2019. I would like to see ABM as a discipline just like marketing automation became. People started to hire marketing automation specialists and that became a practice, that became a thing. I think in ABM I would love to see (like I’m seeing in some cases) like companies hiring like 15 account-based marketing people in marketing departments. So I think that’s just crazy and incredible. But that’s what I’m starting to see. I’d love to see more ABM as a discipline because it does take a different mindset. Secondly I think I would love to see authenticity kind of raised to a completely new level in marketing where it’s not gimmicky. It’s not trying to alert or appeal to everybody it’s really personalized. Have a lot of that in it. I’d love to see that. I’d also love to see a different level of dashboard. Like we talk about ABM scorecard which is very different than what marketing has been sharing which unfortunately now has become that. I’d love to see a better and a different ABM scorecard for lack of a better word or phrase so that will truly showcase the power and influence that marketing can have working alongside sales in driving revenue for their organization. I think that will require a completely different set of metrics not leads but engagement not traffic to the website but pipeline velocity. Right. Not number of downloads or registrations but really penetration into accounts that drives revenue. Those kind of things will be core to the CEO and the CFO and the board and the company.

Paroma(18:53) : Interesting way to look at things, it was really fun to have you over, do you have anything else you’d like to share with the audience?

Sangram (19:05) :-Laughed. I’m about to go write the second book on a marketing so I’m just starting sometime in April or so. So I’m excited about that and more more on that soon.

Paroma (19:20) :- Great. So we’ll have you over again to talk about it. Thank you so much.

About Sunny Side Up

Sunny Side Up is a series of 15-minute podcasts. Leaders and innovators share what they’ve learned in the B2B tech sector on topics related to marketing, product management, sales, and leadership.